Some time again I posted a thread right here how I used to be roped into my good friend’s streetwear startup and it turned a free work hell, whereas I am nonetheless a scholar designer who can be engaged on paid freelance jobs. I must create the t-shirt designs, advertising graphics and movies for him without spending a dime. He mentioned he’ll give me share after gross sales. Working with him, he has been very horrible at giving me clear and concise transient, he saved asking me to alter issues whereas I am working, there’s one time the place he requested me to alter the design in an accusing tone (as a result of his neighbour didnt prefer it) simply to make use of the unique design I initially made in the long run.
I may by no means work easily and our workflow has been sending him after each little change as a result of he would not have a concise transient and but has very strict requirements on what he desires and the workload retains getting bloated. (Aka, “mess around in Photoshop till I just like the design” model of labor course of). He desires me to be a ‘co-founder’ of his startup and that I ought to put 100% of my efforts in it with out me even accepting to it, I ended up mendacity to him quite a bit about his enterprise as a result of I do not wish to damage his emotions.
I requested for recommendation right here, and everybody was telling me to cease working for him. So then I requested him if I may depart from this job, he received very upset, he mentioned that I had no dedication, that I am destroying our friendship and the way I owed him as a result of he listened and supported me after I really feel down . So I ended up begging him to nonetheless work with him, nevertheless I informed him that.
**My guidelines : He want to present me detailed and concise transient 2 months earlier than the work begin. I gave him a short template that he has to fill. I’ll solely do works as briefed, no extra random further work as he feels prefer it, eveything have to be deliberate upfront so I can plan my time .**
He went quiet for per week, throughout then, I ended up received right into a full time job (not in design, however my design course is a component time, so it is job, research and freelance now) which can make me busier.
Now he got here again and ask me if it could possibly be 1 month as a substitute of two, I want I may inform him off however I would like him as a good friend.
He’s nonetheless troublesome with briefing as ever and waffles round what he desires with the video. I saved telling him, please write me within the transient template intimately and provides me references movies within the sheet. I really feel like an asshole for doing so, however working with him has been irritating and I want an in depth transient to verify the whole lot went easily.
How do I even take care of him? I have been a really shut good friend with him however I really feel like he is exploiting me with out realising.
Nothing is stopping you from quitting if you aren’t getting paid. Quit.
So, you came to ask for advice. You got the right answer. You proceeded to basically ignore that advice… And now you want more advice?
Nah. You got the right answer the first time. People who exploit other people don’t get better unless they face real consequences. Do the needful and drop the hammer or accept that things aren’t going to get better.
>he got very upset, he said that I had no commitment, that I’m destroying our friendship and how I owed him because he listened and supported me when I feel down .
Guilt-tripping and emotional manipulation: check
Lack of respect for boundaries: check
Exploitative behavior: check
Unbalanced power dynamics: check
In a healthy friend dynamic, there should be mutual respect, open communication, and a willingness to support each other’s well-being and growth. Both parties should feel comfortable expressing their needs and concerns without fear of manipulation or guilt-tripping. It’s essential to establish healthy boundaries and ensure that the friendship is based on mutual understanding and reciprocity.
Considering the behavior exhibited by your friend, it may be important to evaluate whether this friendship is genuinely beneficial to your well-being. Healthy relationships should uplift and support each other, rather than create undue stress and exploitation.
Dude this is one of the craziest things I’ve ever seen. No offense but if you want to work as a designer you need to grow a spine otherwise this is what the rest of your professional life is going to look like. People walking all over you and you doing tons of unpaid work for no reason.
“No.” Is a complete sentence.
Also that dude is not your friend. JFC!
Open ended free work is terrible for this reason. If your “friend” paid for your work this would give him motivation to organize his ideas and needs so you could execute them within a set number of hours.
As graphic designers we want to be paid because we need money, but also because many clients won’t treat us with respect unless they’re restrained by the terms of a contract.
Um, that’s not a friend, that’s an energy vampire. I’m guessing you’re under 30 ditch him like a bad habit. If he’s using you in this way, he’s using you in others. Don’t ask if you can leave, just do it. Say that you’re being taken advantage of and unless he throws what you’re worth on the table, peace out. Remember that the only people that get mad about you setting boundaries; are the people that benefit from you having none.
How do I even deal with him?
Cut him off, it’s over.
All these red flags even reading your text but it’s all a learning experience.
Keywords
streetwear **startup**
**free** work
**He said he’ll give me percentage after sales**
he doesn’t have a concise brief
**he wants me to be a ‘co-founder’ of his startup**
**So then I asked him if I could leave from this job, he got very upset, he said that I had no commitment, that I’m destroying our friendship and how I owed him because he listened and supported me when I feel down . So I ended up begging him to still work with him, however I told him that.**
This is by far the worst part of this situation, YOU ARE BEING USED! He’s not your friend.
I’m saying this to help you because I hate when others are being exploited.
If he’s actually a friend then he wouldn’t be threatening the friendship when you want to leave. When you’ve done so in the past he’s freaked out, not because of the “friendship bring ruined” but because he’s losing the free labour and has to start putting money behind his venture.
Ultimately that’s his problem, you gotta leave the “job” and if he believes that’s enough to somehow kill what friendship you 2 have then really it just clearly shows his true view of your friendship to one another
Old saying “never mix business and friendship”. It’s only going to end in tears. How many people have to tell you?
Sounds to me like you should still leave. Him getting all defensive and blaiming you when you expressed your needs is not how a good friend reacts.
If this is how it starts, do you really think he would treat you better if the business turns successful?
You asked for advice – everyone told what to do. You did the opposite and back asking for advice again. It’s like you LIKE being used and needed. You’re begging for his validation while simping his friendship at the same time.
he’s not your “friend”
I am a graphic designer. I do a SHIT TON of work for t-shirt screenprinters. Here are two rules you need to remember:
1. 99.99% of “streetwear companies” never sell a thing. Seriously. It’s the same as 99.99% of rappers never make a dime and 99.99% of promoters never actually promote anything and 99.99% of influencers don’t influence a damn thing.
2. Fuck you, pay me. It’s hard to get in the habit of telling people, especially friends, that you want to get paid for your work. In this case you should have been paid for the work AND be paid a percentage of sales.
You need to quit immediately. He’s not your friend. If you continue like this, then it’s all on YOU.
Lol friends dont guilt trip friends into working for them. You lack commitment cause youre clearly not committed to his brand
Just continue being his doormat since you seem hellbent on not taking anyone’s sound advice.
Also, is that the type of “close friend” you’d like to keep around you?
Your friend sounds like people I know; they don’t value creative work and respond terribly to boundaries. The fact that he is making you feel like an asshole for setting boundaries says more about him than you. People who overstep and need boundaries are often the worst at receiving them. His response is manipulative and thats not ok.
A couple thoughts about this, here’s some options to explore:
– consider writing up an invoice for work so far to show him the $$ you’ve put into his project.
– he offered to give you a cut of the $ for your work. Going forward ask to be paid upfront for each project (give a max tab you’ll let him hold before doing more work) and have it deducted from your cut.
– think about contracts. Do you have a contract for your commitment/role in this startup? Do you have a contract outlining the boundaries around what work you do? If not, now is a good time to start. It will also outline what behaviour/responsibilities your friend has. He needs to work as hard as you at this.
– now that you have full time work you could consider giving him a small window in your week devoted to this work. (2-3hrs or so) tell him your only free to give him that time
– think about shifting all ‘business related’ conversations to email only. Create a paper trail, give yourself time to think through each response before you say it, but more importantly allow your friendship to take a break from this project.
– make a gameplan to prevent this situation in the future
Write down all the things you’ve learned that need to be in a contract for future gigs. Think about how you want to handle future ‘friends and family’s situations. (Personally, I don’t offer anything at a.discpunt, but instead.through in a free business card mockup or something small to really elevate the project, that way any additional work will always come with the assumption of paying).
Overall I’m sorry your in this spot. It’s a mistake lots of you g designers get in. The real test is how you get out going forward. I hope that ultimately your friend will come around and value your friendship more over the rest of this. But if you value him as well, you probably owe it to him to be fully honest too. If this company isn’t going anywhere then maybe have that hard conversation and see where it goes. Hope you find a resolution that you can feel good about.
> I owed him because he listened and supported me when I feel down
ignoring for a moment that that is a basic tenet of friendship and not a transaction, you’ve MORE than repaid that with your endless free labour, so i’d call it even and tell this asshole to temper his expectations and start treating you like a human being and not a machine to produce at his demand
You don’t ask if you can quit, you just quit.
You set your limits and they are not beign met.
Everybody gave you good advice but you won’t take. Any reasonable friend wpuld know that you need money to survive and any time you spend working for free is money you don’t get and you will be missing for school, food or rent. If he can’t see that, he’s not your friend.
I never do work for friends or family, even if it’s paid, learned it the hard way
Why do you even want this dude as a friend?
If I do free work. It’s in my style. How I want it and in a way that benefits me. There’s no changes. No neighbours. No updates. If you want that, then you pay.
If this person continues to treat you this way after voicing your concerns and requirements, he is *not* your friend. You are being used.
This guy is not your friend. He is using you and manipulating you by saying you would be ruining the relationship. Id tell this guy to fuck off and find a better friend.
a skilled manipulator vs. against a really submissive person. Learn to stand up for yourself. It is your brand from my point of view. Really what is his job?
Man, this sucks and it’s going to suck. You are going through your first “client breakup.” I don’t think I know a single designer who hasn’t been through this.
Your friend is being an asshole. He pushed you to terms that you still can’t meet. Your stress is pushing down your creativity. You have a new job that will be using up the reserve you have.
It is unsustainable.
I want you to sit with this comment for a second:
**What are you trying to save this relationship for?**
It’s a really important question to ask yourself right now, because it’s going to affect how you understand relationships down the road, so really think it out. All of the comments are right, by the way. I hated the fact that I had to cut ties with friends that I had because of something so trivial, at least to me. And yeah, it hurts, especially if it’s your first time doing it. I don’t like making people mad. But I can tell you after years of experience, this is part of life, not just your business. It’s not selfish to understand that you, yourself have a limited bandwidth. It IS selfish to keep ragging on a friend for work when they have tried to give you boundaries. You wouldn’t do that to your friend, correct?
I know your reasoning: “But I have so much time and so many great experiences with this person! I have seen them mad before, just never at me for something I have done.” But that’s just it, you tried, he called your bluff because he knows you would cave. Again, I ask, would YOU do that to a friend, or even a stranger?
This is why everyone is telling you to stop. Yes, this vindictive friend is going to hurt your feelings and it’s going to suck. They are hurting you right now. Your best hope is that in the coming months, years, etc. that they become a better person. Some of the friends that I had did. Others did not.
I know it’s scary because in your mind, you see this person as invested time and you don’t want to give that up, but we can all tell you, time invested doesn’t mean time wasted: There are good lessons that you can take away from this, flags to look for, and a training of your gut.
The hope you need to have in this situation is that your friend will mature over time and realize that other people and their lives exist outside of his. Until that day, you may be the only one who comes away learning something meaningful from your friendship.
Well, you didn’t listen to us the first time, so I guess you’re stuck learning a tough lesson. Best of luck.
I stopped at “I need to create….for him for free.” And I’d seen your previous post.
NO! You do not need, nor should you, *do anything for free or with the carrot dangling of future money.*
100% No. Stop. You are allowing your friend to exploit you. End it.
quit. I’ve been in a very similar situation and I promise you, the friendship you think you are fighting for isn’t a friendship, they are just using you.
Generally don’t work for friends, it usually doesn’t work out.
I stopped doing family & friends work because of something similar. Cousin asked if I could do his wedding invites, and I said I would make it a gift, but it became super clear that his fiance we looking at Pinterest every day and finding a new style she liked. Too many “Hey how are the invites coming? She’s getting a little anxious about when they are going to be done.” Just for the design to change again.
Now if a family or friend needs work from me, they sign my normal contract.
You were already given a ton of advice on how to handle this, and didn’t listen. So go back to that first post and reread. You’re just wasting people’s time now.
Give him 2 weeks notice, tell him he has to find another resource. If his business model depends on free labor then he’s doomed to fail. If he takes this news badly, then he cares more about using you than having you as a friend. Accept and move on.
Is he a real friend though? He sounds like he is manipulating, guilt-tripping, and ultimately exploiting you to get free work. Unless you haven’t made it clear to him how this is affecting you and how you can’t work like this, it may be time to face the fact that this person is not a good friend to keep in your life, and ultimately, firing him as a client (and maybe friend as well) is in your best interest.
You are not being compensated for your time and effort in what he is asking of you. I would not put up with that. If you want to salvage the friendship stop doing work for him. He is definitely taking advantage of you. I work full time and have a handful of freelance projects but my client knows that I work full time and understands my timeline for projects. Having an accurate and detailed design brief is important. Great communication about what they want out of a design makes for a happy designer and a happy client.
Let’s imagine your friend’s business has actually been established for years, and you were not a designer on the project. Would you ask him for thousands and thousands of dollars of free clothing every month? And then nitpick about every piece, and make him undo the stitching and redesign the clothes to your preferences?
Value yourself and your time! You deserve better.
Regardless, if/when this business fails, I’d be willing to bet that your “friend” will probably place some or all of the blame on you (ie you weren’t committed enough, your designs weren’t good enough blah blah). Your friend sounds immature and toxic, and if you want to avoid being in this sort of dynamic in the future with legitimate clients, setting up a contract-based workflow and establishing clear boundaries at the beginning of every project will help you avoid this sort of pitfall in the future.
But here you are trying to fix this problem right now, so I would suggest sitting down and writing out everything that happened up to this point as you see it, how it went, how it made you feel, how you are willing to proceed (if at all), including establishing a contract. This is business, and it should’ve been kept separate from your personal relationship at the outset. Tell your friend you want to preserve your friendship (if that’s what you want) and this is the best way to do that. If they don’t accept it or have a problem with it, you really should considering moving on from this person.
It’s super hard to accept but if you allow this now you have a higher chance to accept it again. Be mindful of your worth and don’t let anyone (friends, family, clients, partners, randos) diminish you.
This manipulative asshole is not your friend. He’s playing you. Cut him loose.
This is not a friend. This is someone who is exploiting your skills for their own business plan. You can make your own tshirts without him, he can’t do it without you.
Time to smarten up and politely say you can no longer work pro-bono. Set a rate, and if he cuts you off because you won’t give free work you know he was never a real friend to begin with.
just make the business yourself.